religious debate revive

Which brings up the point (using theology) that only what god wants to happen will happen, there for if you sin, it is because god wanted it to happen, and if Lucifer uses you, it's because god wanted it to happen, which means that you wouldn't go to hell because you are ultimately doing the work of god.

Zanthos wrote:

Which brings up the point (using theology) that only what god wants to happen will happen, there for if you sin, it is because god wanted it to happen, and if Lucifer uses you, it's because god wanted it to happen, which means that you wouldn't go to hell because you are ultimately doing the work of god.

nope. god made us and his angels able to make their own decisions!! if you die a sinner and go to hell, then you are definitely NOT doing the works of God.

this sums up lucifer, just saying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT1KRZOK4VE&feature=PlayList&p=BB5C0ED1A9CBDB08&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=18

haha kinda

I just like how we are on a fingerboard fourm and the general discussion about religion is getting more posts than the actual fingerboard disscussions.

yep haha

blosom wrote:

Zach Padilla wrote:

blosom wrote:

the bible is bs.

science is proven fact...

Haha. If you have actually known anything then you would know that there is no true facts that God does not exist or that the bible is B.S.

Science is not proven fact. Please show me one fact that the Bible is not true.

come on.......ive read the bible.....be it many years ago in a lost place.......im a christian myself.........jesus walking on water, being killled and coming back to life, and all the other 'miracles'.........what you have to remeber if there is any scap of truth in it is it was a long time ago......now either the people had ergot in the bread, or very active imaginations........i just go by what 31 years on this earth has told me......and i have yet to see 'miracles' like in the bible.

and yeah, i totally agree theres no prven facts that god doesnt exist.....but the same goes for pixes, banshees, goblins, ghouls, ghosts, fairies and everything else make believe...

and what do you think science means?

and if there is a 'magical genius' like god.....it can only be taylor.....

Please use proper Grammar. I can barely understand what you are saying.
And as for miracles. I have seen enough to understand what faith means. I have only seen miracles when I have had faith.

Zanthos wrote:

Which brings up the point (using theology) that only what god wants to happen will happen, there for if you sin, it is because god wanted it to happen, and if Lucifer uses you, it's because god wanted it to happen, which means that you wouldn't go to hell because you are ultimately doing the work of god.

I am sorry but that is not true. God was a loving God so he made us with a free will. We have the choice to do whatever we please too. God made it like that because he did not want us to be robots. He wanted us to be free because he loves us. And you would go to hell since you chose to sin and you chose to not repent.

but god creates us in his image doesnt he?
so why would he give someone the idea of sin?

He didn't give anyone the idea of sin. Satan did.
God created us in his image has nothing to do with sin.

god created us, thus creating or thoughts, thoughts can lead to sin, if they are those kinds of thoguhts

Satan created those sins. God made us with a free will with choices. So we have a choice to sin or not. It is our Fault that we chose to sin. Not God's.

Zach Padilla wrote:

Satan created those sins.

Which only happened because god allowed it. You obviously have no reasonable logic going into your arguments. Anyway, you still don't have any proof whatsoever of anything for which you have been talking about. Religion is based on belief, and belief is by it's definition, not based on facts. Science is based on hard data and widely accepted theories, which have time and time again been tested and resulted in, the support of certain hypotheses. Show me where you have proof of the existence of a deity from ANY religion or show me proof that science is not based on fact.

there is TONES of proof of God. i have seen many people healed before, miracle from god. its really incredible. ever seen the 700 club?? i know its boring, but God heals many people EVERY DAY on that show.

Zanthos wrote:

Zach Padilla wrote:

Satan created those sins.

Which only happened because god allowed it. You obviously have no reasonable logic going into your arguments. .

Haha. You say I have no reasonable logic? If you were so intelligent you would know that Satan was cast down to Hell for wanting to be God and then he was imprisoned there for all of eternity and now for the evil he has done he will burn in the lake of fire.

And for proof. Have you ever seen a miracle? Let me tell you one. My brother was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease called Fabry. It is when your kidneys fail when you are Dehydrated. When my brother was diagnosed he could not walk because his hands and feet felt like there were burning and being stabbed. He could not go to the bathroom because his intestines were plugged up. For 2 weeks he could barely eat because he could not go to the bathroom. Well my mom was talking with one of her lifelong friends and they started to pray. When the words Amen were said my brother ran to the bathroom.
Six years later he has not had to have a kidney transplant and has not felt the pain that he has had Five years earlier. Now if that is not proof then I do not know what is.

Zach Padilla wrote:

Now if that is not proof then I do not know what is.

totally. the only problem is that most atheist will deny it and say "well you didnt get it on video!" you know?

hey zach
my dad died from lung cancer that spread throught his body, and alot of people prayed for him. But he still died, so how come god doesnt give miracles to everyone whos ill?

Real studies have shown that prayer does not help recovery at all. And miracles as they are shown by televangelicals are all BS. If you get a person to believe something will happen, they can be tricked into actually doing so, which is how hypnotism works. It's all psychological, which I would know as both of my parents are psychologists, and rooted in both the person's conscious and subconscious. Just look at the karate and tea-kwon-doe "masters" who believe they can knock people over with chi energy, and that it has been proven that it only works when the "victim" is aware that the person claims to be able to do so, and have some small belief that it will work. It is all the same mechanism. My close friend Sam prayed and [rayed for his mother to get well, and you know what happened? He got to watch his mother die on his living room couch. People can actually be tricked into getting better and recovering faster. Studies have shown that people who believe they WILL die(when they are diseased etc.) have a lower recovery rate and a higher mortality rate, where as if you tell somebody that they won't die(and they have reason to believe that you're not just bullshitting them,) it is more likely that they will survive, and more likely to have a higher recovery rate.

Jonathan .B wrote:

hey zach
my dad died from lung cancer that spread throught his body, and alot of people prayed for him. But he still died, so how come god doesnt give miracles to everyone whos ill?

god chooses the right thing. some times he answeres prayers with "yes", "no" or "wait".

Zanthos wrote:

Real studies have shown that prayer does not help recovery at all. And miracles as they are shown by televangelicals are all BS. If you get a person to believe something will happen, they can be tricked into actually doing so, which is how hypnotism works. It's all psychological, which I would know as both of my parents are psychologists, and rooted in both the person's conscious and subconscious. Just look at the karate and tea-kwon-doe "masters" who believe they can knock people over with chi energy, and that it has been proven that it only works when the "victim" is aware that the person claims to be able to do so, and have some small belief that it will work. It is all the same mechanism. My close friend Sam prayed and [rayed for his mother to get well, and you know what happened? He got to watch his mother die on his living room couch. People can actually be tricked into getting better and recovering faster. Studies have shown that people who believe they WILL die(when they are diseased etc.) have a lower recovery rate and a higher mortality rate, where as if you tell somebody that they won't die(and they have reason to believe that you're not just bullshitting them,) it is more likely that they will survive, and more likely to have a higher recovery rate.

you can say what you want, but i know miracles DO happen

You don't know, you believe. You can't say you KNOW until you have FACTUAL evidence.

Zanthos once you see it for your self you will know what I am talking about. Not everything needs to have proof or facts.

the factual evidence is based on experiences. we know it for a fact. its YOU who "beleives" that its not true.

Zach Padilla wrote:

Zanthos once you see it for your self you will know what I am talking about. Not everything needs to have proof or facts.

Okay, right there you have completely demonstrated how much of an idiot you actually are. Everything needs proof, because proof is what our society hinges upon. Why do you think our law system has innocent until PROVEN guilty. It's the idea for which modern society operates. Even if you are trying to hide the proof, your are still centered on proof.

And factual evidence is not based on experiences, evidence is based on hard data, e.g. numbers. You shouldn't make the assumption about what I believe in. What I believe in is evidence. Because belief in evidence is belief in unadulterated truth, the WHOLE truth, not some bs half truth, or something which can be directly traced back to stories from before the religion even existed.

Either way, what is the point of this thread? From what I'm seeing, it all comes down to the fact that, even if I point out every single flaw in any of your arguments, you will still be ignorant, which means I'm talking to a brick wall. There is no point in arguing with bricks.

Zanthos wrote:

Zach Padilla wrote:

Zanthos once you see it for your self you will know what I am talking about. Not everything needs to have proof or facts.

Okay, right there you have completely demonstrated how much of an idiot you actually are.

Either way, what is the point of this thread? From what I'm seeing, it all comes down to the fact that, even if I point out every single flaw in any of your arguments, you will still be ignorant, which means I'm talking to a brick wall. There is no point in arguing with bricks.

You call me an idiot and a brick yet you still don't see what I am talking about. How do you think scientists got the data and proof? Because they witnessed it and/or experienced it.
It is funny because you called me ignorant yet you don't see what I am saying. You don't need to see it to believe it. It is opposite. You need to believe it to see it.
And this "Either way, what is the point of this thread? From what I'm seeing, it all comes down to the fact that, even if I point out every single flaw in any of your arguments"
I am not arguing with you. It is called a debate yet all you are doing is arguing. I am not arguing with you. I am debating and stating what I believe in. You don't have to agree with me. You already chose the path you want to walk.