Religious Debate continued

Alright carry-on since this is what we wanted. if you missed it, the last thread left off when taylor and zach were making some ridiculous argument about how jehovah witnesses call themselves christians.

Thank you, now we don't have to spam the other thread.

i was just making one

to catch everybody up,

Zach Padilla wrote:

BobbyAlter wrote:

Zach Padilla wrote:

toastycornflakes wrote:

Jonathon, Jonathon, Jonathon. lol.

I'm a Christian, and I'm not simply just saying that so I can say I'm religious. I'm actually a christian. My beliefs are based around the fact that only God can save me, and He's in total control over everything that happens.

PS- 500th post.

Yah thank you for saying that you actually are a christian. There are alot of people out there that call themelves ''Christians'' yet they nothing about being a christian.


I am Christian my parents have been pastors for 20+ years so I was born and raised in a christian home.

You're acting like Christianity needs to be exclusive. It's not for you to decide what or who is Christian and what isn't.

I never meant for it to sound like that. What I was saying was that alot of people say there christian yet they don't show it in there true lives. I'm not going to lie I was one of them but I was saying that alot of people who say there christian do not act and show that there christian in there daily lives.

Zanthos wrote:

Is it necessary to do so? Religion is a private matter. You shouldn't have to tell people what you believe, because it won't matter, you'll still be the same person.

Zach Padilla wrote:

Zanthos wrote:

Is it necessary to do so? Religion is a private matter. You shouldn't have to tell people what you believe, because it won't matter, you'll still be the same person.

In christianity it is necessary to tell people about the good work of Jesus Christ. In the Bible jesus says for us to reach as many people for God as we can.
And what I am saying is that if you say your christian then you have to act like one.
if you say your christian yet you do stupid stuff and sinful things then thats is just being a "poser".

I'm not trying to be judgemental or anything.

Zach Padilla wrote:

Zanthos wrote:

Is it necessary to do so? Religion is a private matter. You shouldn't have to tell people what you believe, because it won't matter, you'll still be the same person.

In christianity it is necessary to tell people about the good work of Jesus Christ. In the Bible jesus says for us to reach as many people for God as we can.
And what I am saying is that if you say your christian then you have to act like one.
if you say your christian yet you do stupid stuff and sinful things then thats is just being a "poser".

I'm not trying to be judgemental or anything.

BobbyAlter wrote:

I would consider my self mostly Roman Catholic, but there are some guidelines and things, even things in the bible that I disagree with. Also zach, yes, we should proclaim the word of God, but that doesn't mean people should feel the need to practice Christianity the way they would like.

toastycornflakes wrote:

BobbyAlter wrote:

You're acting like Christianity needs to be exclusive. It's not for you to decide what or who is Christian and what isn't.

Actually, as Christians, we should be able to know who is a christian and who isn't. It's not that we think we're special, we're just different from other people.

TaylorT wrote:

Zanthos wrote:

Is it necessary to do so? Religion is a private matter. You shouldn't have to tell people what you believe, because it won't matter, you'll still be the same person.

thats not true

when you truly experience gods love, youre not the same person, youre born again

you dont have to believe me

Zach Padilla wrote:

^ Yes glad you said that.
Being born again does not mean crawling back inside the woumb and coming back out it, is the spiritual changes that can happen in the physical world. All you have to do is let God work in your life.

BobbyAlter wrote:

oh come on zach and taylor. yes i believe in God and his righteousness, but you're trying to say both of you are completely enlightened? I'm just curious how old are you guys?

TaylorT wrote:

i recently went to this Christian camp and i really saw what God can do. its amazing, actually. this kid had a broken leg, we prayed for him (the Bible says that if 2 or more people gather, then it will be done {pm me if you have questions} and there was like 7000 people) and instantly his leg was healed

hundreds of people speaking in tounges is really amazing to see

Zanthos wrote:

GOD'S HOLY LAW TO THE CHILDREN OF ETHIOPIA

Great and manifold are the blessings bestowed upon us the oppressed children of Ethiopia, by His Divine Majesty, Lord God Almighty, King of all mercies, when by his most holy command His divine highness, Christ, Prince of the Heavenly Kingdom, descended and anointed us that we may be prepared to receive these noble men, servants of God and redeemers of Ethiopia's posterities. His honor, Marcus Garvey and colleague, his holiness the shepherd Athlyi, supreme minister of God's Holy Law to the children of Ethiopia, may we show gratitude to our God by being submissive to his teachings through these his humble servants, and submitting ourselves in obedience to his Holy Law that we a suffering people may reap the fruit thereof.

When as it was the intention of others to keep us forever in darkness, by our faithfulness to the Law we shall in time prove to the nations that God has not forsaken Ethiopia.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


As from the Holy Piby, a book of the Rasta Movement, a subsection of christianity.

Zach Padilla wrote:

BobbyAlter wrote:

oh come on zach and taylor. yes i believe in God and his righteousness, but you're trying to say both of you are completely enlightened? I'm just curious how old are you guys?

When have I ever said anything about being enlightened? I'm just sharing information with you.
And I am 13

and Zanthos it was not Ethiopia it was the Hebrews.
Correct me if was wrong with what I have just typed but I have never read or heard of anything about the children of Ethiopia.

zanthos, we arent that "style" of christian

that just seems a little wack. if only i could make sense of it

jacklilley wrote:

ok i belive there is a god or something but not adam and eve etc if that did happen wed all be brothers or sisters lol and i belive there is an afterlife etc

Zanthos wrote:

I was giving the example that everyone is right. Just because they worship "god" in a different way than you, doesn't mean they are wrong. The Holy Piby is the book that the Rastas use to interpret the Bible. I will point out though, that both are written by Man and have no proof at all that any other forces were involved, and that the Bible that you read isn't even the entire book. Most of the Gospels were removed by the Church to fit their own interpretation of "god"'s will. For example the Gospel of Judas was removed because it shows that Jesus told Judas to betray him and that Judas would not be damned for doing so as it was an act of "god".

I use god in quotations because that is only one of many names for the concept of a deity(Even within Christianity, as in with Jah).

Also, many people are turning this into an argument/semiconversion, and is getting way off of the original topic instruction. If arguments continue, I might just lock this. There is a difference between arguing and debating.

TaylorT wrote:

jacklilley wrote:

ok i belive there is a god or something but not adam and eve etc if that did happen wed all be brothers or sisters lol and i belive there is an afterlife etc

there is no afterlife

Zanthos wrote:

If arguments continue, I might just lock this. There is a difference between arguing and debating.

are you serious? there has been no arguing. zantard, man up a little. this thread is good

no disrespect

Zach Padilla wrote:

Jack we are brother and sisiters. not physically but spiritually.
And Zanthos I have never heard of the "rastas" not the book of "Piby" so I have no comment for you.

And I am merely debating not arguing at all.

TaylorT wrote:

Zach Padilla wrote:

Jack we are brother and sisiters. not physically but spiritually.

yep. also, it all kind of comes down to noah's family. not adam and eve

Zach Padilla wrote:

And Zanthos I have never heard of the "rastas" not the book of "Piby" so I have no comment for you.

yeah same. im a Christian, not a rastafarian

Zach Padilla wrote:

And I am merely debating not arguing at all.

youre right

Zanthos wrote:

TaylorT wrote:

Zach Padilla wrote:

Jack we are brother and sisiters. not physically but spiritually.

yep. also, it all kind of comes down to noah's family. not adam and eve

Zach Padilla wrote:

And Zanthos I have never heard of the "rastas" not the book of "Piby" so I have no comment for you.

yeah same. im a Christian, not a rastafarian

Zach Padilla wrote:

And I am merely debating not arguing at all.

youre right

A debate consists of legitimate, logical arguments. I have not seen one that logically states anything from you. You are so narrow minded that you don't see the flaws in anything you say. Rastas ARE Christians just like Mormons ARE Christians just like Jehovah's Witness's ARE Christian. Your pastor isn't the only person who knows anything about Christianity. Maybe you should look up the history of your own religion. Not everything on here has been an argument, as some people have actually made legitimate posts that follow the terms of the thread, but this is not the place to gather around your religion.

And to Zach,you have to see that everyone is right relative to their own point in space-time. You are right, I'm right, the man on the corner selling crack is right, from each person's own respective perspective.

Jonathan .B wrote:

Post whatever your religion is and summarize in a sentence or to what its based around.

Also I see nothing there that says anything close to "Debate your religion"

Zach Padilla wrote:

NO. Mormons are not christians,Jehovah Witness are not christians.
Now you call me narrow minded yet when have I ever said that my pastor knows everything about christianity. I have never said anything about anyone knowing everything about christianianity.
And I was born in a Christian home,raised by Christian pastors,Gone to church and have STUDIED under pastors. So after all of that, I should have been responsible enough to retain that knowledge and use it in my well being and life. So I do know History of my religion. I Definetly do not know all of it But I do know most of it.


And yes your right everyone is right in there own perspective and yes pretty much everyhting is related genitically.

Zanthos wrote:

Zach Padilla wrote:

NO. Mormons are not christians,Jehovah Witness are not christians.

Wrong. From Wikipedia: In North America there are over a thousand faith groups including the Roman Catholic church; the Eastern Orthodox churches, other conservative, mainline, liberal and progressive Christian faith groups; The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons); Jehovah's Witnesses, the Unification Church, Christian Science, progressive Christians, and other religious organizations. They all identify themselves as Christian. In fact, many regard their group as the only "true" Christian church. Yet they, and their followers, have very different beliefs about the life, events, teachings, actions, sinlessness and expectations of Yeshua.


Unaltered.

TaylorT wrote:

Zanthos wrote:

Zach Padilla wrote:

NO. Mormons are not christians,Jehovah Witness are not christians.

Wrong. From Wikipedia: In North America there are over a thousand faith groups including the Roman Catholic church; the Eastern Orthodox churches, other conservative, mainline, liberal and progressive Christian faith groups; The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons); Jehovah's Witnesses, the Unification Church, Christian Science, progressive Christians, and other religious organizations. They all identify themselves as Christian. In fact, many regard their group as the only "true" Christian church. Yet they, and their followers, have very different beliefs about the life, events, teachings, actions, sinlessness and expectations of Yeshua.


Unaltered.

they CALL themselves christians. you would have to be one of us to understand, i guess.
zach is right. they are NOT christians. their beliefs are far from ours

Zanthos wrote:

Most liberal Christian denominations, secularists, and public opinion pollsters define "Christian" very broadly as any person or group who sincerely believes themselves to be Christian. Using this definition, Christians total about 75% of the North American adult population.

Many Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Protestants define "Christian" more narrowly to include only those persons who have been "born again" or have made a personal commitment to follow Jesus irrespective of their denomination. About 35% of the North American adult population identify themselves in this way.

Some Protestant Christian denominations, para-church groups, and individuals have assembled their own lists of cardinal Christian doctrines. Many would regard anyone who denies even one of their cardinal doctrines to be a non-Christian. Unfortunately, there is a wide diversity of opinion as to which historical Christian beliefs are cardinal doctrines.

Other denominations and sects regard their own members to be the only true Christians in the world. Some are quite small, numbering only a few thousand followers.[11]




Defined: A Christian (pronounced /ˈkrɪs.tʃən, /ˈkrɪs.ti.ən/) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, who they believe is the Messiah (the Christ in Greek-derived terminology) prophesied in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, and the Son of God.[1][2] Most Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity ("tri-unity"), a description of God as Father, as Son, and as Holy Spirit.

Zach Padilla wrote:

Mormons and Jehovah-witnesses Based there religion on Christianity.

Mormons believe that when Christ comes again only about 175,00 people will be saved.
Jehovah witnesses don't celebrate all holidays including Christmas.

Now if mormons believed God as the all loving and caring savior why do they believe only 175,00 people will be saved? Even If there are even more real Christians out there?

Now if Jehovah winesses were christian why wouldnt they celebrate as we know the birth of christ. The person the religion is based on?

[quote="TaylorT"]exactly, they call themselves christians. "christian" is WAAAY to overused imo. more over used then ____wood companies, lol


zack you have an extremely good point there. Our God is all loving, even if you curse his name, he still loves you.


so yeah

interesting thread btw http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/0428/Noah-s-Ark-discovered.-Again.

^ wow! that is awesome!

I saw that, but I think that they may be lying. They don't have any external pictures. And the story of Noah and the Ark is derived from the Flood of Gilgamesh.

Zanthos wrote:

I saw that, but I think that they may be lying. They don't have any external pictures. And the story of Noah and the Ark is derived from the Flood of Gilgamesh.

it was a flood of the whole earth
god provided the water

Let me tell you the difference about jehova witnesses and mormons.

The only thing that sets Christians apart from Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses is Our scripture. the Bible.
Mormons BASED there religion on Christianity and changed alot of the bible just because one man said he had a revelation from GOD with no real information.
Jehovah-witness do not believe Christ as God they believe him as Micheal the Arch Angel.
And they also have twisted the Bible to there liking.

so all in all Jehovah witnesses and Mormons are extremely good people and I love them, and have absolutely no problem with them.
BUT that is how Mormons and Jehovah-witnesses are different than Christianity.

And Zanthos in the other thread you said about the book of judas and other books taken out of the Bible.
Yes there were other books BUT people wanted the bible to be cut down and take unneccasary things out so people don't get side tracked and learn about the love of God.

The Bible was never meant to be entirely literal. At the time to the people in the area, Gilgamesh was the world. Hence the whole world flooded. They weren't unnecessary books. The Gospel of Judas paints an entirely different picture of Judas, it says he didn't go to hell, and that Jesus told him to do it. The Gnostic Gospels also have important things that didn't match the views that the church wanted to promote. It all comes down to this, if the Bible is the literal word of god, then man destroyed entire sections of god's word, therefor you are not reading the Bible the way god meant it to be. And, there are different versions of the Bible with entirely different words in it, so which one is the literal word, because if they all are, god seems pretty inconsistent.

Zanthos wrote:

The Bible was never meant to be entirely literal. At the time to the people in the area, Gilgamesh was the world. Hence the whole world flooded. They weren't unnecessary books. The Gospel of Judas paints an entirely different picture of Judas, it says he didn't go to hell, and that Jesus told him to do it. The Gnostic Gospels also have important things that didn't match the views that the church wanted to promote. It all comes down to this, if the Bible is the literal word of god, then man destroyed entire sections of god's word, therefor you are not reading the Bible the way god meant it to be. And, there are different versions of the Bible with entirely different words in it, so which one is the literal word, because if they all are, god seems pretty inconsistent.

the Bible is the word of God. he wrote it. how come they find sea shells on the top of mount Everest? if you have a problem with the bible, talk to God about it. he'll answer

hey heres 2 interesting questions
Who here says whenever someone asked them for proof of god,They say there faith?
And who here believes god has magic powers of healing and of other sorts?

God can do anything. there is no magical powers. before he sent Jesus, if you were to go into the temple, you would die from gods awesome power. our humanly bodies cant handle that. thats why he saint Jesus to die for our sins, and so we can now talk to god.

alright but you never answered is you proof of god your faith?

no

well, it is, but theres more. hundreds and hundreds of other things.

You know what else is funny Jonathan? Nobody has ever answered this question.
what proof do people have that God does not exist?

^thats true

did i say that i ever said god wasnt real? did i? no i didnt
the reason i brought up thse 2 questions which no one ever really gave me an acutal answer to is because i was gonna say that god himself is magical
when i mean magic, i do mean both harrypotter and the REAL definition of magic
magic can mean anything that can not be proven by science, liek socery in harry potter
and nobody can prove gods and jesus' existence
and btw god isnt real

Did I ever say that you think God does not exist? No I didn't.

And you have absolutley no proof that God does not exist. Let me tell you this.
If God did not exist why are there still christians today? Because if God does not exist Why have not even 1 person have any kind of proof that God does not exist.
Nobody has ever had any kind of proof that God does not exist. Because if he did not exist and it was all a lie people would of found out about a LONG time ago.

well you actually directed that question towards me, so i asumed you meant i didnt belive in god
But when i say god isnt real, i mean he was nor is human
evryone tries to say hes real and that personificates the being of him
And people have believed in greek mythology for alot longer then christianity, and most people think now that Christianity derived from greek mythology

What proof do you have have?
None. And people don't believe in greek mythology anymore. so it has not lasted longer.
And I have never heard about people thinking vhristianity came fromgeek. that is just dumb.

If god is all powerful, they could delete themselves. Also, what makes you think that Christianity is the only religion that is right? Why do you call your god "god" if the original name is YHWH.

Taylor you are really stupid. The Bible was not written by God. Stop pulling random facts out of your ass. Jonathan, this isn't an argument whether God is real or not. Cool, you're an athiest. Saying "God isn't real" doesn't contribute to anything.

The real Hebrew name for god is Yahweh. I'm going to stop this fight right now.

Jonathon does not have to believe us, because he has not seen or experienced god's loving power. i have, and many other Christians have. it is proof, to us. you don't have to believe it. that's how amazing our god is. he gives us the choice whether we want to choose him or not. he didn't want robots when he made us, so he gave us a choice! now the only problem with that, is that there is eternal damnation in hell if you don't except him. which i might add, is very easy to do!


hope that helps

BobbyAlter wrote:

Taylor you are really stupid. The Bible was not written by God. Stop pulling random facts out of your ass.

ok just stop. god sent prophets, who wrote the bible. he gave them the words. and im not "stupid". if anything, youre the one who knows the least. as i said in the post above, you have not experienced GODS POWER!!.



sheesh


calm down zantard -Taylor

taylor what your saying is basically translating to you are invited and enlightened into the christian faith from god
So why do chruches tell you to spread the word of the lord?
if the lord wants you in his faith then aparently hell enlighten you, and aparently i havent been enlightened yet, thats why im not christian apparently

Jonathan, don't talk to Taylor about Christianity. I am glad he is so passionate about it, but really is not a good defendant of the religion